'I've known about this stuff since September of 2018,' the lobbyist, Bud Cummins, told ABC News in an interview. 'I don't know when the president heard about it, but I bet it was a long time ago.'
Two months before a Ukrainian official's explosive claims about former Vice President Joe Biden were brought to President Donald Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, the since-disputed allegations about Biden corruptly trying to protect his son were pitched to a Washington lobbyist with ties to the Trump administration and U.S. Justice Department, according to the lobbyist himself.
"I knew precious little about Ukrainian politics at that stage," Cummins conceded, noting he later"picked up" that Lutsenko"may or may not be a credible guy." In her own testimony to Congress, Yovanovitch agreed that Lutsenko was"personally angry" with her for keeping her distance from him. Cummins is a partner at the Washington-based lobbying firm Avenue Strategies. He joined the firm in June 2017, after working on the"transition team" shepherding Trump and his administration into office.
"I had no clue" if the allegations were true, Cummins added, noting that he agreed to represent Lutsenko's interests because the"intermediaries" promised"actual documentary evidence" and witnesses willing to share first-hand accounts.
At the time Lutsenko's allegation about Biden's role in Shokin's firing first surfaced, Lutsenko was starting to face a new threat: upcoming presidential elections in Ukraine, where a new administration could mean a new top prosecutor to take over his position. Though Biden's son wasn't implicated in the scheme, Cummins thought the Biden connection"might be a hook that would make" the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York pay attention to Lutsenko's allegations, Cummins said.
Asked whether the"intermediaries" who came to him were the same ones who then brought Lutsenko's Biden-related allegations to Giuliani, Cummins said he didn't know.Cummins said he's also never had contact with Parnas or Fruman, the two Giuliani associates who early on persuaded a congressman to write a letter calling for Yovanovitch's removal. Parnas and Fruman were indicted last month by Berman's office.
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